Psovanje ABS-a, posljedice isključivanja istog

[Ljubicic D.]

Ma abs je bezveze.. To su sigurno izmislili samo da uzmu vise para za dodatnu opremu,, .. To se sastalo bezveze 100 inzinjera na veceri pa im palo napamet pa ga napravili.. Ovi testovi sto pokazuju da je abs dobar, to je bezveze...

Nemozes bolju brmzu pozelit nego recimo na golfu 1 bez serva.. Kad ti poiskacu sve vene na nogama da stanes, to je poso ...

Za one koji hoce testirat abs ona se lijepo vozite jednom stranom auta po šoderu a drugom po cesti pa stisnite bremzu,, a onda to ponovite bez abs-a...

Ako je auto normalan, nije spusten,, znači tvornički, mislim da je suvisno pričat sta je bolje,,, jedino sto se mora imat su ljetne gume po zimi.. Ja se vozim na sliku i super mi radi abs.. Radi mi i ručna i nozna..Neznam jel to zbog guma il zbog auta...Rijec je o toyoti...

[Marina]

Buhahahahahahaha

[mr_G]

Killer ABS

By Frank Williams

...

 

 

Jako dobar tekst! :thumbsup: Vidiš neko sam ustanovio sam, no ostalo nisam znao... Morati ćemo napraviti neki test ABS-a... :rofl:

[goc9999]

Killer ABS

By Frank Williams

 

The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) has a mission: “Save lives, prevent injuries, reduce vehicle-related crashes.” NHTSA also commits itself to “providing the most accurate and complete information available to its customers, the American traveling public.” While NHTSA’s progress towards its stated goals is (and always will be) a matter of debate, the agency has failed us. They’ve failed to tell the truth about ABS.

 

Modern ABS consists of a computer (CPU), four speed sensors (one on each wheel) and hydraulic valves (attached to the brake circuit). When the CPU senses that one or more of the wheels are turning significantly more slowly than the others, it decreases the pressure on the braking circuit. If the wheel or wheels then turn too fast (freed from braking), the force is reapplied, creating a pulsing sensation through the brake pedal.

 

When Bosch’s Antiblockiersystem appeared on the US automotive scene in the late ‘70’s, safety advocates hailed electronically assisted braking as a life-saving technology that would reduce the number and severity of accidents. Tests under controlled conditions seemed to support the contention. NHTSA and the insurance industry quickly embraced and promoted the technology.

 

Thanks (in part) to insurance industry discounts, almost every passenger vehicle now sold in America is fitted with ABS. NHTSA’s web site proclaims “…an antilock brake system (ABS) is a safe and effective braking system. ABS allows the driver to maintain directional stability, control over steering, and in some situations, to reduce stopping distances during emergency braking situation, particularly on wet and slippery road surfaces.” The real-world evidence doesn’t support their claims.

 

Researchers have compared accident and fatality rates for vehicles with and without ABS. Other studies have examined the driving records of ABS and non-ABS equipped taxi drivers in Munich and Oslo. The accident and fatality data shows that ABS exacerbates the severity of accidents in certain situations. The taxi study proved that drivers tend to take greater risks in cars equipped with ABS (although the difference in collision rates was not significant). In short, ABS may do more harm than good.

 

More specifically, the studies show that ABS has no real-world effect on dry-surface braking, ABS-equipped vehicles take longer to stop on ice than non-ABS vehicles, ABS-equipped vehicles are more prone to roll-over accidents than non-ABS vehicles, ABS-equipped vehicles are involved more often in single car fatal accidents than non-ABS vehicles, and drivers of ABS-equipped vehicles tend to drive faster and apply their brakes later than non-ABS drivers.

 

The AAA Foundation for Traffic safety has determined that improper driver steering in an ABS-equipped vehicle can send it veering out of control. In their tests, jerking the wheel (as if trying to steer around an obstacle) in a 35 mph panic stop sent ABS-equipped cars careening across two lane widths. (Without the ABS, the car skidded in a straight line.) This behavior may account for the higher roll-over rates for ABS-equipped vehicles. Other research revealed that many drivers don’t use ABS properly; they pump the pedal as they would regular brakes.

 

NHTSA, the insurance industry, manufacturers and engineers are all well aware of ABS’ shortcomings. In 1994, Dr. Charles J. Kahane published a paper for NHTSA entitled “Preliminary Evaluation of the Effectiveness of Antilock Brake Systems for Passenger Cars." Kahane reported that “All types of run-off-road crashes – rollovers, side impacts with fixed objects and frontal impacts with fixed objects – increased significantly with ABS. Nonfatal run-off-road crashes increased by an estimated 19 percent, and fatal crashes by 28 percent.” Kahane also concluded that “Rollovers and side impacts with fixed objects… had the highest increases with ABS. Nonfatal crashes increased by 28 percent, and fatal crashes by 40 percent.”

In 1996, the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety published a news release titled “Antilock Brakes Don’t Reduce Fatal Crashes; People in Cars With Antilocks at Greater Risks” In 1998, Leonard Evans of General Motors’ Global R&D Operations checked NHTSA’s ABS crash data and concluded “it is unlikely that on dry roads ABS can materially reduce risk” and, more shockingly, “ABS is associated with a 44% increase in rollover risk.” In 1999, the Society of Automotive Engineers reported that “ABS was found to be associated with a 51 percent increase in fatal rollover crashes on dry roads. For fatal side impact crashes, ABS produced a 69 percent increase for unfavorable road conditions, and a 61 percent increase for favorable road conditions.”

 

The average cost of an ABS system is $240. Multiply that figure by millions of vehicles, add the number of lives lost and the injuries suffered because of ABS' ill effects, and the true cost of this potentially lethal braking systems is evident. At the very least, NHSTA should launch an immediate investigation into the advisability of fitting SUV’s with ABS. Meanwhile, you’ve been warned: ABS can kill.

 

mislim da je cijelokupni zakljucak ovog clanka taj da se vozaci koji imaju u vozilima ABS, osjecaju sigurnije pa zbog toga koce kasnije i time su ugrozeniji. To mozda i jest slucaj, ali to ne znaci da je ABS los, vec da su ljudi glupi.

[InSaNe]

Is the Antilock Brake System Really Effective in Avoiding Vehicle Crashes?

by Bernadette Dalao May 10, 2008

 

 

The antilock brake system (ABS) was introduced by car manufacturers in the 1980s. Immediately, it was hailed as a major safety feature because of its ability to help drivers avoid crashes that result from skidding on wet roads. Today, the brakes are standard equipment on most new vehicles - but at a cost of over $1,000. Which leads you to ask if you are getting your money's worth. Maybe not.

 

Antilock brakes are activated when the system senses that one or more wheels are about to lock up - usually, as you apply firm and continuous pressure to the brake pedal. If your car has ABS, you should not pump your brakes when stopping suddenly.

 

Pumping antilock brakes is a dangerous proposition because it deactivates the very technology you want to engage. Unlike regular braking systems, antilock brakes will not lock up the wheels or cause the car to skid out of control when you slam on them. That's because the system reduces brake pressure and pumps the brakes automatically (up to 15 times a second) until the wheels rotate correctly. This maximizes road grip, prevents skidding, enables you to steer while braking, and may allow you to stop more quickly.

 

But do antilock brakes really reduce crashes? Although antilock brakes continue to work very effectively on the test track, they've produced mixed results on the road. U.S. government and insurance-industry studies found that they don't significantly reduce crashes. Even more alarming are two surveys that concluded that cars with ABS are more likely to be involved in fatal single-vehicle crashes. Auto-industry studies, on the other hand, showed that ABS reduced accidents on wet roads by up to 19 percent - and that they prevented nonfatal crashes but not fatal ones.

 

The bottom line is: ABS makes little difference on dry roads and will actually lengthen stopping distances on gravel or soft snow. It is, however, effective in wet conditions.

 

One final caution: Despite their safety benefits, experts say that antilock brakes don't enable you to drive more aggressively or negotiate curves faster. Nor do they shorten the recommended distance you should maintain between your car and the one in front of you.

[Fox]

steta sto svi ti inzenjeri automobilskih tvrtki nisu na myhrawebu. uvjeren sam da bi mogli ponesto i nauciti od silnih Loeba i Schumachera tu...

 

 

.

[InSaNe]

Jako dobar tekst! :thumbsup: Vidiš neko sam ustanovio sam, no ostalo nisam znao... Morati ćemo napraviti neki test ABS-a... :rofl:

 

Ja isto kazem da to treba pravilno istestirat i provjerit :rofl:

 

Obzirom da je autoindustrija u banani poceli su na sve aute metat abs da ih se sto vise podrobi

[Mattas]

steta sto svi ti inzenjeri automobilskih tvrtki nisu na myhrawebu. uvjeren sam da bi mogli ponesto i nauciti od silnih Loeba i Schumachera tu...

 

 

.

 

Nema ih ko preporučiti:lol:

[InSaNe]

S abs-om se ni ne treba nac u rizicnoj situaciji, on sam pokusava atentat

 

n9QXo2pcfuo

 

o zivotu i smrti odlucuju kondenzatori iz kine koji se igraju s kocnicama

[mr_G]

 

The bottom line is: ABS makes little difference on dry roads and will actually lengthen stopping distances on gravel or soft snow. It is, however, effective in wet conditions.

 

Da istu stvar sam i ja par stranica ranije zaključio, pa su se stručnjaci ovdje posprdavali sa mojim zaključkom...

 

S abs-om se ni ne treba nac u rizicnoj situaciji, on sam pokusava atentat

 

n9QXo2pcfuo

 

o zivotu i smrti odlucuju kondenzatori iz kine koji se igraju s kocnicama

 

2:25 gledati... ABS je samo od sebe popizdio.. :drink:

[Risbo]

Zanimljivo, znači auto bolje koči sa manjim koeficijentom trenja između gume i podloge. Ako uspije to netko dokazati, siguran sam da će dobiti nobelovu nagradu za fiziku

 

ako niste znali koeficijent trenja je veći kod kotaća koji se kotrlja u odnosu na onaj koji kliže. Postoji izuzetak kada se ispred kotača stvara klin (na rahlim podlogama) koji guma mora gurati pa se povećava trenje - snijeg (ne led) i šljunak (i to neugaženi)

U svim ostalim slučajevima ABS smanjuje put kočenja, samo je pitanje koliko manje (ovisi o kvaliteti ABS-a).

Jer ABS održava okretanje kotača i omogućuje maksimalnu silu kočenja koju guma može prenijeti. Važno je da je ABS 4-kanalni, odnosno da se svaki kotač zasebno regulira, ali mislim da su na svim novim autima takvi ABS-ovi.

 

A dodatni bonus je što se zadržava mogućnost upravljanja autom jer kotači nisu zablokirani.

 

U slučaju da ABS rikne, auto koči ko da ga nema.

[mr_G]

Zanimljivo, znači auto bolje koči sa manjim koeficijentom trenja između gume i podloge. Ako uspije to netko dokazati, siguran sam da će dobiti nobelovu nagradu za fiziku

 

ako niste znali koeficijent trenja je veći kod kotaća koji se kotrlja u odnosu na onaj koji kliže. Postoji izuzetak kada se ispred kotača stvara klin (na rahlim podlogama) koji guma mora gurati pa se povećava trenje - snijeg (ne led) i šljunak (i to neugaženi)

U svim ostalim slučajevima ABS smanjuje put kočenja, samo je pitanje koliko manje (ovisi o kvaliteti ABS-a).

Jer ABS održava okretanje kotača i omogućuje maksimalnu silu kočenja koju guma može prenijeti. Važno je da je ABS 4-kanalni, odnosno da se svaki kotač zasebno regulira, ali mislim da su na svim novim autima takvi ABS-ovi.

 

A dodatni bonus je što se zadržava mogućnost upravljanja autom jer kotači nisu zablokirani.

 

U slučaju da ABS rikne, auto koči ko da ga nema.

 

Pa nekoliko stranica to pišem... :rofl:

[Bubi]

Zapamtiti ovo:

 

Killer ABS

By Frank Williams

When Bosch’s Antiblockiersystem appeared on the US automotive scene in the late ‘70’s.....

 

Thanks (in part) to insurance industry discounts, almost every passenger vehicle now sold in America is fitted with ABS. ........

 

 

i onda proučiti ovo:

 

ABS-equipped vehicles are involved more often in single car fatal accidents than non-ABS vehicles,

nou šit šerlok! možda zato jer od milijun auta u americi od 1970 je ostalo još 100 tisuća bez ABS-a

 

 

a ovo bolje ne komentirati

 

and drivers of ABS-equipped vehicles tend to drive faster and apply their brakes later than non-ABS drivers.[/b]

 

jer me podsjetilo na raspravu s foruma grada Poreča gdje se žalim na katastrofalni asfalt u jednom zavoju i svaki put kad padne kiša, netko izleti s ceste na nogostup i pitanje je vremena kada će se neki pješak naći na putu

i onda se nađe jedna specijalka koja tvrdi da je bolje ne staviti novi asfalt jer sada izlijeću s 50 km/h, a s novim bi vozili brže pa bi izlijetali sa 100 :doh: :doh: :doh:

[Mattas]

Zanimljivo, znači auto bolje koči sa manjim koeficijentom trenja između gume i podloge. Ako uspije to netko dokazati, siguran sam da će dobiti nobelovu nagradu za fiziku

 

ako niste znali koeficijent trenja je veći kod kotaća koji se kotrlja u odnosu na onaj koji kliže. Postoji izuzetak kada se ispred kotača stvara klin (na rahlim podlogama) koji guma mora gurati pa se povećava trenje - snijeg (ne led) i šljunak (i to neugaženi)

U svim ostalim slučajevima ABS smanjuje put kočenja, samo je pitanje koliko manje (ovisi o kvaliteti ABS-a).

Jer ABS održava okretanje kotača i omogućuje maksimalnu silu kočenja koju guma može prenijeti. Važno je da je ABS 4-kanalni, odnosno da se svaki kotač zasebno regulira, ali mislim da su na svim novim autima takvi ABS-ovi.

 

A dodatni bonus je što se zadržava mogućnost upravljanja autom jer kotači nisu zablokirani.

 

U slučaju da ABS rikne, auto koči ko da ga nema.

Za razliku od starih drli kao moja kojij je puno bolje bez, zato je i eliminiran:thumbsup:

Nije isti ABS na starijim i novijim autima:thumbsup:

[InSaNe]

Zapamtiti ovo:

 

nou šit šerlok! možda zato jer od milijun auta u americi od 1970 je ostalo još 100 tisuća bez ABS-a

 

 

 

Dragi Watson nije ucio statistiku u skoli niti cuo za postotke. :doh:

 

Rezultati su iskazani u postocima, dakle svejedno je koliko ima auta sa ili bez abs-a. Ako treba reci pa da objasnim kaj to znaci. :rofl:

[filip00]

ajmo na trenutak odvojit ABS i zimske/ljetne gume. ABS cemo stavit da je 2. stupanj, gume su 1. stupanj.

 

dokle god niste u stanju apsolvirat da po zimi idu ZIMSKE GUME, a po ljeti LJETNE GUME, ne mozete preci na drugi stupanj i shvatit sto je ABS, za sto sluzi i kako se koristi....jer trebas bit posebno tupav da ti ne ide u glavu zasto auto klize kad ima ljetne po snijegu, JEBO TO DAL IMA TAD U TOM TRENU ABS ILI NE U PIZDU MATERINU NESPOSOBNU ZA SHVATIT....

[Bubi]

Dragi Watson nije ucio statistiku u skoli niti cuo za postotke. :doh:

 

Rezultati su iskazani u postocima, dakle svejedno je koliko ima auta sa ili bez abs-a. Ako treba reci pa da objasnim kaj to znaci. :rofl:

 

lol kako je svejedno koliko auta ima ili nema abs?! ispitivanja i statistike se provode na UZORCIMA, to znači da nisu ispitali sve sudare u nekoj godini, nego su ih nasumce odabirali da naberu određeni broj za napuniti tablicu

i sad mi reci da li će u Hrvatskoj ispasti da je većinu sudara izazvalo vozača s hrvatskim državljanstvom ili vozača s talijanskim? :lol:

[goggi]

covjek je napisao za postotke da su vjerovatno uzeli 100 auta sa abs-om a 100 bez i da je onda radjen postotak

[Bubi]

covjek je napisao za postotke da su vjerovatno uzeli 100 auta sa abs-om a 100 bez i da je onda radjen postotak

 

ovo ne bi imalo smisla

imalo bi smisla da su uzeli 200 golfova 4 TDI proizvedenih od '99 do '01 s time da 100 ima abs, a 100 nema

 

Researchers have compared accident and fatality rates for vehicles with and without ABS

 

ovo bi svakome ko je radio bilo kakvu statistiku trebalo značiti da je uzorak auto s abs-om i auto bez abs-a, a frekvencija broj sudara jednih i drugih, tj da su svi u istom košu

[goggi]

dobro,ja sam karikirao posto vidim da ti i dalje ne shvacas poantu

[Bubi]

ti mi objašnjavaš ono šta mi insane govori, ja to govorim da to nema smisla, ili?

ne kužim

 

mmmajke-mi!

[InSaNe]

I ocekivao sam da cu morat objasnit.

 

U ovom slucaju se ne radi o statistickom uzorku jer su dostupni svi podaci o registriranim autima dakle time i svi podaci o autu pa tako i jeli opremljen ili ne abs-om kao i koji su auti sudjelovali u nesrecama plus hrpa drugih detalja. (vani cak i privatne osobe mogu dobiti povijest bolesti svakog auta bez potrebe za vezama u muriji kao kod nas)

 

E sad sto se tice statistike. Ljudima koji su radili te statisticke analize je jasno da ima vise auta s abs-om i da se nemoze prosto seljacki gledat samo broj nesreca pa tako rec da je zbog toga bilo vise nezgoda kod auta s abs-om kao sto je dr. Watson konstatirao.

Statisticari su ipak postotak izracunali u odnosu na broj registriranih vozila.

 

Dakle recimo da je u US registrirano 10.586.158 vozila s abs-om i 895.058 vozila bez abs-a.

 

Vozila s abs-om su sudjelavala u 586.186 nesreca, a vozila bez abs-a u 19.987 nesreca.

 

Koja vozila imaju vecu vjerojatnost za sudjelovanje u nesreci?

 

Dr. Watson bi zakljucio da je 586.186 vise nego 19.987, ali je to zapravo zabluda jer vozila s abs-om ima par milijona vise pa su statisticari bubnuli bezveze.

 

Sherlock bi to ipak preracunao u postotak i zakljucio da je:

 

586.186/10.586.158 = 5.5%

19.987/895.058 = 2.2%

 

Da se razumijemo ja ne tvrdim da je abs opasan nego sam prenio clanak koji se tice teme jer mi se ucinio zanimljivim za diskusiju (ne diskusiju o statistici).

 

Cinjenica je da u nekim situacijama abs produzuje zaustavni put jer mu osnovna namjena niti nije da smanji zaustavni put nego da sprijeci blokiranje kotaca pri kocenju.

[Bubi]

I ocekivao sam da cu morat objasnit.

 

U ovom slucaju se ne radi o statistickom uzorku jer su dostupni svi podaci o registriranim autima dakle time i svi podaci o autu pa tako i jeli opremljen ili ne abs-om kao i koji su auti sudjelovali u nesrecama plus hrpa drugih detalja. (vani cak i privatne osobe mogu dobiti povijest bolesti svakog auta bez potrebe za vezama u muriji kao kod nas)

 

 

jebote to si trebao odmah napisati, a ne da tipkam ko kreten cijeli dan :lol:

onda je pitanje koliko je auta s abs-om imalo ljetne gume zimi, a koliko bez abs-a zimske ljeti :drink:

taj podatak ne govori apsolutno ništa i ne može biti referenca za bilo kakve rasprave jer se upire prstom u uređaj, a nisu izuzeti ostali čimbenici koji su mogli utjecati na to da se taj auto nađe u statistici bez obzira na (ne)efikasnost istog uređaja (alkohol, krivica nekog drugog vozila, neprimjerene gume....)

[goc9999]

ne sjecam se tko je vise ovo c/p-ao:

 

In what circumstances might conventional brakes have an advantage over ABS? There are some conditions where stopping distance may be shorter without ABS. For example, in cases where the road is covered with loose gravel or freshly fallen snow, the locked wheels of a non-ABS car build up a wedge of gravel or snow, which can contribute to a shortening of the braking distance.

 

tko god da jest, nastavak nije stavio...

 

If I live in the Snow Belt, how can I benefit from ABS? Even in fresh snow conditions, you gain the advantages of better steerability and stability with four-wheel ABS than with a conventional system that could result in locked wheels.

 

In exchange for an increased stopping distance, the vehicle will remain stable and maintain full steering since the wheels won't be locked. The gain in stability makes a potential increase in stopping distances an acceptable compromise for most drivers. All in all, these benefits outweigh the rare instances where the ABS system increases distances over non-ABS equipped vehicles.

 

Does ABS work on ice? Yes. The system's computer monitors the speed of each of the vehicle's wheels, compares them and adjusts brake pressure to each wheel to ensure the car stops in the shortest distance possible for most road surfaces.

 

i na kraju jedna potpuno druga studija:

 

Do car antilocks reduce crashes?

 

Although car antilocks perform well on the test track, it is unclear whether they have made significant reductions in the number of on-the-road crashes. A 1994 Highway Loss Data Institute (HLDI) study1 and a subsequent 1995 study2 compared insurance claims for groups of otherwise identical cars with and without antilocks, finding no differences in the overall frequency or cost of crashes for which insurance claims for vehicle damage are filed. Because antilocks should make the most difference on wet and slippery roads, researchers also studied insurance claims experience in 29 states during winter months. Even here they found no difference in the frequency of insurance claims for vehicles with and without antilock brakes. A 1997 Institute study3 and a 2001 update4 reported no difference in the overall fatal crash involvement of cars with and without antilocks.

 

According to one federal report, "the overall, net effect of antilock brakes" on both police-reported crashes and fatal crashes "was close to zero."5 A more recent federal report concluded that antilocks reduce overall crash involvement risk by 6 percent for cars and 8 percent for pickups and SUVs, but they have no effect on fatal crash risk.6 Leonard Evans, a researcher with General Motors, reported that antilock-equipped cars were less likely to rear-end other vehicles but more likely to have other vehicles rear-end them.7 The net result was little effect on overall crash risk. In a study conducted for auto manufacturers, Failure Analysis Associates reported a net beneficial effect of antilocks on nonfatal crashes but no effect on fatal crashes.8

 

 

Why aren't car antilocks reducing crashes as expected?

 

No one knows for sure why their test performance has not translated into a substantial reduction in real-world crashes. A possible reason is that the average motorist rarely experiences total loss of vehicle control, which antilocks are designed to prevent. There also is evidence that many car owners do not know how to use antilock brakes effectively. A 1994 Institute survey of drivers with antilock-equipped cars found that more than 50 percent in North Carolina and 40 percent in Wisconsin incorrectly thought they should pump the brakes.9 Another possibility is that some motorists may drive less cautiously because they believe antilocks allow them to brake better.

 

 

gdje se opet dolazi do zakljucka da se ili ljudi previse opuste pa kasnije koce, ili zbog ABS-a zakoce naglo pa budu udareni (straga) - sto ce reci da nije njihova krivica. A postoje i oni koji pumpaju kocnicu pri kocenju jer misle da to usporava put kocenja (s ABS-om)...:lol:

[SlaX]