quattro pogon

[obie]

malo cemo se ovde raspisat o doticnom pogonu i educirat neuke (opet neke bemvejaše :rofl:)... i da ne spammamo tamo u onom bmw vs. audi topicu

na audi clubu ima dosta stvari kojima je objasnjeno kako taj pogon funkcionira, pa cu prenjet zrno znanja. :notworthy:

 

 

 

 

 

* Za ljubitelje quattro pogona - jednostavno savršeno mehaničko rješenje

 

1) Torsen differential - Audi Quattro system*

 

 

* Being the master of 4-wheel drive' date=' Audi always insists to use the most effective system despite regardless of price. Its Quattro 4WD system* uses a pure mechanical LSD, Torsen differential. Torsen, means "torque-sensing", was invented by an American company calls Gleason Corporation. Its slip-limiting ability is implemented by cleverly using worm gears / worm wheel pair. This pair has a special characteristic: driving torque can be transfered from worm wheel to worm gear, but not reverse. Otherwise, they will be locked up. It is such characteristic that limit slip.

A: Differential housing

B: Out axle

C: Worm wheel

D: Worm gears

E: Synchromeshes

F: Hypoid wheel (from engine)

G: Out axle

 

* The above picture explains how Torsen differential works. In normal cornering, i.e., no tyre slip in any wheel, Torsen differential provides the same function as a normal differential. The addition of worm wheel / worm gear pair does not affect speed difference between output shafts. For instance, if the car turns left, the driveshaft to right wheel runs faster than the differential housing, while the driveshaft to left wheel runs slower than the differential housing. The speed difference between left and right worm wheels can be exactly matched in the synchromesh gears. Note that the worm gears / worm wheels pair do not lock up because torque is transfered from worm wheels to worm gears. When one of the wheels, say the right wheel, loses traction due to poor road surface or whatever reason, the worm gear / worm wheel pair get into effect. At the instant just before they become effective, one must know that by the basic differential theory no torque will be sent to the left wheel, which is with traction. Instead, all the torque will be sent to the spinning right wheel. Then, the fast-rotating right worm wheel will drive its worm gear, through the synchromesh and drive the left worm gear. Now, do you still remember the basic characteristic of worm gear / wheel pair ? Well, when worm gear drives worm wheel, they will be locked up. As a result, the left worm gear and right worm gear are actually locked together, thus wheels on both side will rotate at the same speed and get the car out of the lose of traction.

Characteristic of Torsen-equipped 4WD

 

Except the first generation Quattro system that appeared in the early Quattro coupe, most of the subsequent Quattro systems used Torsen differential in center and rear axles. This is rather expensive. However, Torsen-equipped 4WD has many advantages. First of all, its pure mechanical parts react almost instantly to tyre slip. Secondly, it provides linear lock-up characteristic. Thirdly, it is a strictly permanent 4WD system. In normal condition, torque split between front and rear wheels is 50:50 (other ratios are possible, depends on the pitch of worm gears). Apart from Audi, few other car makers adopted Torsen LSD, mainly because of cost reason. Toyota's rally ace, Celica GT4 was one of the few exception. It used Torsen in the rear axle. This might be part of the reason why it was so expensive over competitors.

 

Advantage:Quick response, permanent 4WDDisadvantage:Pricey, torque split not variableWho use it ?All non-Golf-based Audi quattro models, Toyota Celica GT4, Hummer etc.

 

Note: * the "Quattro" mentioned here is the traditional Torsen system marketing in the name Quattro. That includes all Quattro models until the arrival of Audi TT (which uses the Haldex system). Since then the name Quattro becomes a marketing trade mark rather than indicating the actual mechanism. At the time of writing, all Audi Quattro models, excluding the Golf-based A3, S3 and TT, still employs the traditional Torsen system.

 

i slikice

 

 

 

 

 

pod imenom quattro dolaze 2 pogona. jedan je toersen koji dolazi sa uzduzno postavljenim motorima, a haldex iskljucivo sa poprecno postavljenima. u audijevoj gami cemo ga nac samo u A3 i TT.

svi ostali su toersen (A4,A5,A6,A8,Q7,Q5 ... i linijama prije 80,100,200 ...... )

 

 

 

tko zeli citat na engleskom ima ovdje materijala... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quattro_(all_wheel_drive_system)

[SvenDaMan]

dobar način za izgubiti brdo konja u prijenosu

[obie]

dobar način za izgubiti brdo konja u prijenosu

 

respect :thumbsup:

[Koko]

Ova "Mobilnost na visokom nivou!" se zaista dobro vidi na onom filmiću na valjcima:lol::lol::lol: I ne piše se toersen, nego Torsen, što je kratica od Torque Sensing:drink:

[Mario_S3]

Imate pravo, Torsen je sranje, od BMWa je bolji !

 

 

[obie]

Ova "Mobilnost na visokom nivou!" se zaista dobro vidi na onom filmiću na valjcima:lol::lol::lol:

 

sta se tice toga... http://myhraweb.com/showpost.php?p=35290&postcount=102

[Mario_S3]

Inače ljudi se svaki dan nalaze u situaciji da im se auto stvori na području gdje je trakcija ravna nuli (led). Možda bi magični mogao kontra fizike pa da vozi auto po ledu ? Uvjeren sam da bi, pa to je BMW, u svemu najbolji !

[Dominik]

dobar način za izgubiti brdo konja u prijenosu

 

je, al si dobio vise na trakciji tj. dobio si jos jednu vunu komponentu na 2 vise kotaca sto ti znaci vise nego 2WD s vise konja:)

[SvenDaMan]

je, al si dobio vise na trakciji tj. dobio si jos jednu vunu komponentu na 2 vise kotaca sto ti znaci vise nego 2WD s vise konja:)

 

nije to loše, ali jel zaista potrebno za svakodnevnu upotrebu?

 

nije da smo u Sibiru....

[Japanac]

nije to loše, ali jel zaista potrebno za svakodnevnu upotrebu?

 

nije da smo u Sibiru....

 

Očito se nisi nikada pošteno provozao po zavojima u dobrom 4x4

[SvenDaMan]

Očito se nisi nikada pošteno provozao po zavojima u dobrom 4x4

 

jap je ti čitaš kaj pišem?

 

SVAKODNEVNA vožnja - znači na posao, malu gužva, malo crveno na semaforu....

 

cappyši?

[schlatka]

Pa meni svakodnevna vožnja uključuje barem 20 zavoja u onih par kilometara do posla.

Po toj logici, koji će mi k... auto koji vozi 200 km/h kad se ne vozim svaki dan s njim toliko. :blink:

[Mario_S3]

nije to loše, ali jel zaista potrebno za svakodnevnu upotrebu?

 

nije da smo u Sibiru....

 

Pa nepotrebno ak ti auto ima 90 konja

[J.J]

Pa nepotrebno ak ti auto ima 90 konja

 

LOL bas to!!!

 

AWD je prednost u svakom slucaju!!

 

Jest da malo se gubi na prijenosu ali kako je i Mah vec rekao, ima 2 kotaca ibera za vuci masu ili gurati je !!!

[platinum]

pitanje za znalce

AUDI A4 2.5 TDI 2002.g

motor 180 ks

na koju osovinu salje vise snage?

znaci nije omjer 50-50 vec koji je?

[SvenDaMan]

Pa nepotrebno ak ti auto ima 90 konja

 

a Japov ima više? :doh:

 

topic ko i svaki drugi, svaki svoga konja hvali...

 

i da, jel Mr. G's Lanos awd? :huh:

 

( ) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3EMxOsEKkOc

Edited November 23, 2008 by SvenDaMan

[kutija]

pitanje za znalce

AUDI A4 2.5 TDI 2002.g

motor 180 ks

na koju osovinu salje vise snage?

znaci nije omjer 50-50 vec koji je?

 

Pa ako je centralni diff torsen onda na onu koja ima vise gripa.Znaci varira omjer.Inace je 50/50 ako obe osovine imaju isto gripa.

[Mexx]

pitanje za znalce

AUDI A4 2.5 TDI 2002.g

motor 180 ks

na koju osovinu salje vise snage?

znaci nije omjer 50-50 vec koji je?

haldex spojka se koristi od 1998-me pa mislim da je u tebe takoder.

mislim da se pogon pali po potrebi pčomocu haldex spojke....

u normalnim uvjetima voznje auto je ekonomicnije ako se radi o haldexu

4 motion umisto 3 diferencijala ima samo 2 i Haldex spojku između njih.

Npr. Quattro , Lancia integrale, Subaru Impeza, Mitsubishi Lancer Evo imaju 3 diferencijala (prednji, zadnji i centralni koji izjednačava brzine vrtnje prednjeg i zadnjeg). Prednost 3 diferencijala je pogon na sva 4 u svakom trenutku.

4 motion u normalnoj vožnji ima pogon samo na perdnje kotače i u slucaju proklizavanja prednjih kotaca Haldex spojka prihvati i onda pogon dobiju i straznji kotaci. To je jeftinija varijanta pogona 4x4, ali i lošija.

4 motion je ujedno i ekonomicniji od kvarta,al je i lošiji za sport voznju

[Mexx]

evo ensto o haldexu

First Gen - 1998

 

The Haldex Coupling made its first appearance in the Audi TT and VW Golf with a patented hydraulic-mechanical All-Wheel-Drive concept that is electronically controlled and allows AWD performance that had never been seen before. This system attempts to engage the rear wheels when the front wheels start to slip.[1]

[edit]Second Gen - 2002

 

The second generation of Haldex coupling is an electronically controlled permanent 4x4 system with a Haldex differential calculating how much drive should be directed to the rear wheels. The Haldex system automatically distributes power between the front and rear wheels depending on slippage, but normally sends 95% of the power to the front wheels. It can react in as little as one seventh of a revolution of any wheel. Power transfer in the second generation is much more effective. Electronic sensors and controls can modify the system's response characteristics, for better operation in conditions ranging from dry pavement to loose gravel, snow, ice, or mud. A pre-charge pump charges the hydraulic system to allow the coupling to engage so quickly. This pump is improved again for the third generation to allow for greater speed. [2][3]

[edit]Third Gen - 2006

 

The third generation of Haldex coupling made its appearance on the newly re-designed Land Rover Freelander 2 (LR2 in the United States). With enhanced capabilities, It allows more immediate off road response. The Freelander's intelligent 4x4 system has been developed in conjunction with Haldex, whose acclaimed centre-coupling technology continuously alters the front-rear torque split, normally through a hydraulically operated multi-plate wet clutch. However, Land Rover wanted an electronically controlled centre coupling – linking the propshaft to the rear differential – that could pre-engage at rest to reduce wheelspin from standing starts, engage quickly when traction loss was detected and disengage quickly without compromising stability control systems. The system also had to transmit the necessary torque to achieve Freelander 2's off-road traction demands. The result is used exclusively on Freelander 2, and proactively engages full-time 4x4 rapidly and completely. An improved high-pressure pre-charge pump charges the hydraulic system as soon as the engine is started, allowing for full-time 4x4 from rest. It also reduces the time taken to achieve full torque once wheel-slip has been detected – within 15 degrees of wheel-slip rotation (compared with over 60 degrees of wheel-slip rotation with more conventional units). The Freelander 2's Haldex unit is designed to allow up to 1500 Nm of torque transmission. An accumulator also speeds up the unit's response. Full torque transmission can be achieved in just 150 milliseconds. In effect, the new Haldex coupling gives the proactive engagement benefits of full-time 4x4 and the efficiency and fuel economy of an on-demand system. [4]

This generation of Haldex coupling is later shared with Volvo's complete lineup (Manufactured 2005-2008, depending on model) and is called "Instant Traction" in documentation by Volvo. [5]

[edit]Fourth Gen - 2007

 

Saab introduces a unique combination of Haldex Couplings on its 9-3 Turbo-X in late 2007. Called XWD (Cross-Wheel Drive), it allows enhanced traction, safer driving, and better control.[6] The main components of the new Haldex system are the Power Take-Off Unit (PTU), Limited Slip Coupling (LSC) and eLSD (Electronic Limited Slip Differential). The PTU is the final drive unit at the front of the vehicle that transmits power to the front wheels and sends power down the driveshaft to the rear wheels. It is not a Haldex design, but is required to adapt the system to a front-wheel drive vehicle. The LSC sits at the rear of the vehicle in-line with the driveshaft. It controls the torque split between the front and rear wheels of the vehicle. The LSC sends torque to the eLSD that sits between the rear wheels. The eLSD transfers torque to the two rear wheels. Like with XWD, previous generation Haldex systems also included an LSC and an LSD. However, with the new system Haldex significantly redesigned the workings of their LSC. The LSC is still a clutch pack that adjusts torque split depending on hydraulic pressure. It is the method of fluid flow through the device that has changed.

[J.J]

pitanje za znalce

AUDI A4 2.5 TDI 2002.g

motor 180 ks

na koju osovinu salje vise snage?

znaci nije omjer 50-50 vec koji je?

 

Na zadnje u omjeru 60:40 ili 70:30

[obie]

@mexx.... hldex se u audiju koristi samo kod A3 i TT i NIGDJE više... svi ostali su torsen.

[Mario_S3]

Na normalnim A4 bi treba biti 60 iza - 40 naprijed. Mislim da RS4 ima 70-30

Edited November 23, 2008 by Mario_S3

[obie]

kod kolege platinuma je torsen, bas kao i kod mene, pribe i mariolinog a4 dtm-a.

snaga po osovinama je "varijabilna", odnosno ovisi o trakciji... al mislim da natrag baca vise snage nego naprid.

[priba]

haldex spojka se koristi od 1998-me pa mislim da je u tebe takoder...

 

:no:ne bi bilo

 

haldex je samo u A3 i TT .... SVI ostali su torsen kao što je obie već spomenuo

 

 

a sa svenom se ne bi baš složio (naravno) jer kao u mom slučaju auta sa teškim motorom naprijed i ogromnim prevjesom nema boljeg nego full time awd

sa fwd je šljuka a sa rwd bi bio još veća

[Mario_S3]

kod kolege platinuma je torsen, bas kao i kod mene, pribe i mariolinog a4 dtm-a.

snaga po osovinama je "varijabilna", odnosno ovisi o trakciji... al mislim da natrag baca vise snage nego naprid.

 

To definitivno jer sam se uvjerio u to kad sam se vozio po snijegu u Italiji, kad nabiješ gas jače, uvijek guzica bježi i tako ga je lagano kontrolirati po zavojima i "namještati". Inače vozi se ko igračka doslovno, ko da je igrica u pitanju, baš ga je lako kontrolirati i "bočiti"