Hic Posted May 4, 2016 Share Posted May 4, 2016 A tko zeli znati SNAGU MOTORA, Neka ga izvadi i ode mjeriti na engine dyno. The end od mene Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fire Posted May 4, 2016 Author Share Posted May 4, 2016 Da, hic ti volis taj medu podatak pa da mnozi. Tako bivsa imprezza od sase pokaze 400 na "kotacu" i 450HP na radilici. Ali s racunicom dobis kao 500HP. Uglavnom svi valjci (cak i tvoji) mjere snagu motora. I svi ih osim tebe koriste pravilno. Jel to nije cudno da sada jedan izmislja svoj standard koji je suprotnih od svih? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hic Posted May 4, 2016 Share Posted May 4, 2016 Nije istina. Pisi u mainline, i objavi odgovor. Evo, I dare you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dcrnic Posted May 4, 2016 Share Posted May 4, 2016 Ja ne mogu vjerovati da si jos otvorio topic da se pokopas o svom neznanju... bolje suti pokri se usima i sakri se negdje, nego jos vise davati materijala koji te samo pokopava... Ako ne znas Engleski, neka ti netko prevede na tvoj broken hrvatski.... Why Don’t We Like To Quote Flywheel Power? The most common question we get asked is: “What’s the power at the flywheel?” And the only answer an honest chassis dyno operator can give you is: “We don’t know” There, we have said it. But Other Places Tell Us! -> Evo ovo si ti.... Indeed they do – and we will give you a flywheel power graph too. However, they are mere guesstimates and the problem is, some guess high to inflate your ego, some guess a little low and some aren’t too bad at all. But NONE of them are 100% guaranteed accurate because a chassis dyno can ONLY measure the power at the tyres... nowhere else. If you want to measure the flywheel power accurately, you need to take the engine out and measure its power on an engine dyno – it’s as simple as that. Why Is that? The way a chassis dyno works is that it measures the tractive effort at the wheels against a known resistance and then when plotted against RPM and a set of correction factors (See other signs), it outputs a pretty damn accurate torque and power graph. However, this graph does of course only tell us the power at the point of measurement... The tyres. What then happens is an extra “percentage” is normally added to the graph to represent the amount of power the dyno maker assumes a transmission system will absorb. Now I have seen these as low as 10%, but as high as 35%. This means a known good 200bhp at the wheels vehicle will have an estimated flywheel power of anywhere between 220bhp and 270bhp if it has a go on each of these dynos. It certainly won’t accelerate any faster as it still has exactly 200bhp at the wheels, but the owner would probably smile a lot more and greatly impress his mates at the pub if he uses the one that gives him 270bhp and sends his mate and his identical car to the one that will tell him he has only 220! Why Is The Power At The Wheels The Most Important Power? The power at the wheels themselves is what propels your vehicle forward. When tuning on our dyno, we take a baseline wheel figure over three runs and then tune for more power at the wheels. As long as we get more power at the wheels we know for a fact the car will accelerate better. It’s as simple as that. All we need is repeatability so we can be certain that changes we have made have had the desired effect. Rolling Road Tuning in Lancashire Is There A Ballpark Accurate Figure To Get A Flywheel Estimate? No – There really isn’t – however, we tend to find that a reasonably good set of figures to use is as follows: Front Wheel Drive = Add 15% Rear Wheel Drive = Add 18% Four Wheel Drive = Add 22% Please understand that these figures are just guidelines – To suggest that a 1000bhp at the wheels 4wd vehicle has just lost 220bhp through the transmission is ludicrous – that is enough heat to melt a gearbox casing in seconds! The figures do however normally work out pretty accurate for most types of sub 250 bhp road car. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hic Posted May 4, 2016 Share Posted May 4, 2016 Ustvari imam ja odgovor od njih za takve kao ti. Samo da napravim screenshot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hic Posted May 4, 2016 Share Posted May 4, 2016 Evo od dynocoma odgovor: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hic Posted May 4, 2016 Share Posted May 4, 2016 A kad nadjem, napisem ti od mainlinea Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dcrnic Posted May 4, 2016 Share Posted May 4, 2016 zanimljivo je kako tvoj mozak funkcionira Fire... Znaci ovako od kompjutera dyna do radilice ima toliko komponenti, "gubitaka" na svakoj od njih... da bi se dobili rezultati... Manje ih ima od kotaca do kompjutera dyna... i to je tebi veci problem, nego kada ih imas vise... od kompjutera dyna do radilice... I znaci u tom slucaju tebi nisu onda problem ovi prvi gubitci... samo su problem ako nema ovih drugih... Dali je bolje mjeriti sa manje mogucih gubitaka ili sa vise mogucih gubitaka? Nakon ovakve logicnosti i prosipanja bisera, ja se divim svakome ko ce ti dati auto u ruke... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hic Posted May 4, 2016 Share Posted May 4, 2016 Da skratimo, ti si najpametniji, pametniji od ljudi koji rade dynoe, od inzinjera u boschu itd itd. Kako s tobom razgovarati, osim se zajebavat i mislit da si lud, ne znam. Postoji samo jedna istina, tvoja istina. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_DEX_ Posted May 4, 2016 Share Posted May 4, 2016 zanimljivo je kako tvoj mozak funkcionira Fire... Znaci ovako od kompjutera dyna do radilice ima toliko komponenti, "gubitaka" na svakoj od njih... da bi se dobili rezultati... Manje ih ima od kotaca do kompjutera dyna... i to je tebi veci problem, nego kada ih imas vise... od kompjutera dyna do radilice... I znaci u tom slucaju tebi nisu onda problem ovi prvi gubitci... samo su problem ako nema ovih drugih... Dali je bolje mjeriti sa manje mogucih gubitaka ili sa vise mogucih gubitaka? Nakon ovakve logicnosti i prosipanja bisera, ja se divim svakome ko ce ti dati auto u ruke... Bingo!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hic Posted May 4, 2016 Share Posted May 4, 2016 I ja se divim, koliki su krepali vemsovi i motori zadnjih par dana samo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dcrnic Posted May 4, 2016 Share Posted May 4, 2016 (edited) Bingo!!! nakon svih obuka koje sam prosao u zadnjih 5 godina ... poceo sam razmisljati kao inzinjer, ne kao netko tko za dorucak "jede" gemist... :lol: I ja se divim, koliki su krepali vemsovi i motori zadnjih par dana samo. To je zato jer uvijek netko dostelava i podesava poslije majstora... nije majstor kriv... Edited May 4, 2016 by dcrnic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrlakis Posted May 4, 2016 Share Posted May 4, 2016 A tko zeli znati SNAGU MOTORA, Neka ga izvadi i ode mjeriti na engine dyno. The end od mene jel ima netko engine dyno kod nas? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hic Posted May 4, 2016 Share Posted May 4, 2016 Ima Lovro na krku Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newbie Posted May 4, 2016 Share Posted May 4, 2016 ako ne mozes nesto mjeriti direktno na onome sto se trazi, mjerenje ne vrijedi... deklarirana snaga motora se mjeri uvijek direktno na motoru... to vrijedi i za auto industriju i za avioindustriju... na tzv. test bedu... valjci su alat i gotovo... slicna stvar je s mjernom urom , to je komparator, sluzi za usporedbu, a ne za tocno mjerenje... (tek toliko da povucem paralelu)... my 2 cents... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Posted May 4, 2016 Share Posted May 4, 2016 Koj lovro ima engine dyno? moze info? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dcrnic Posted May 4, 2016 Share Posted May 4, 2016 Koj lovro ima engine dyno? moze info? vjerojatno onaj sa Krka sto je imao prvi auto bi moto u hr swift gti... i poslije onaj lotus... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Posted May 4, 2016 Share Posted May 4, 2016 Badurina??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Petar001 Posted May 4, 2016 Share Posted May 4, 2016 Do sada sam mjerio kod Kikija (bivsi franceticevi valjci), ili sam isao na Dyno Dynamics u Budimpestu. Uvijek sam bio zagovornik WHP-a (s pravom, jer jedino to mozes izmjeriti), i svima sam bez iznimke govorio WHP. No kako to biva, ljudi vole VEEELIKE brojke, i kako nekom objasniti da je to nemoguce izmjeriti, osim izvaditi motor iz auta? Tako svaki dyno IMA PROCJENU (dobivenu na temelju pravog mjerenja, motor na stolu, motor u autu, faktora za pojedinu vrstu pogona, marku auta itd), i to zovu SNAGA MOTORA. Onda se svi hvale sa tim brojkama, koje su jednostavno NETOCNE! Ali ljudi ih vole, pa pojedinci to iskoristavaju da im pumpaju ego, a na cesti, corak. Upravo tako, valjci su alat. Znaci, ja svezem auto za dyno. Izmjerim ga 5-6 puta. Onda ga tuniram. Ne micem ga, ostaje na stolu. Onda kad sam gotov, premjerim ponovo i voila! GOTOV POSAO! Moze se dobiti graf snage i momenta na kotacima, te PROCJENJENA SNAGA NA MOTORU (koja je upucana u dyno i ja nemam NISTA S TIME, BILA ONA VELIKA ILI MALA), te najvaznije od svega sto je vazno, GRAF ILI REZULTAT U POSTOCIMA. KOLIKO POSTO VISE JE SAD OD POCETKA. Moze jos 200 stvari ali neda mi se sada vise objasnjvati jer nema veze sa temom. Hic ako ti se da odg, zanima me dali kad it uneseš fwd ili rwd, dali ti soft sam unese parametar za tu PROCJENJENU SNAGU NA MOTORU i dali je ona ista tebi za sve FWD aute ? čisto informativno me zanima Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hic Posted May 4, 2016 Share Posted May 4, 2016 Sam unese, to je iz tvornice, nemres fidlat. Ni fiddling. Ali TVORNICA TO NAVODI KAO PROCJENU!!!!! Ne tocnost!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raptor6767 Posted May 4, 2016 Share Posted May 4, 2016 Zar nije software u stanju sam "procijeniti" gubitke u onom trenutku nakon mjerenja kad držiš kuplung/ubaciš u ler i auto usporava? I onda na temelju toga "procijeni" bhp? Evo od dynocoma odgovor: Ako se ne varam, ovi se referiraju na to na ovom dijelu: "Now if you do a coastdown loss while leaving transmission in gear with the CLUTCH in then YES the power estimated at the engine will be very close." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hic Posted May 4, 2016 Share Posted May 4, 2016 Moj dyno ne radi coastdown jer nije tocno. Tocno je jedino mjerenje. To sa lerom je glupo i pise ti dalje objasnjenje. Ako je to nekome tocno, neka mu. To nije tocno. "Pretty close" je NETOCNO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hic Posted May 4, 2016 Share Posted May 4, 2016 Ja nisam kupio "pretty close" dyno. Kupio sam tvornicki, najbolji, i da se usporediti sa eu standardom, mahom, jer mjeri u nulu s istom. Pretty close je NETOCNO i TEORIJSKI. Not good enough for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.J Posted May 4, 2016 Share Posted May 4, 2016 Piše u teoriji bi trebala biti jer komp u Dynu nezna ove navedene parametre poput inertia effects of the tranny components, engine etc. Kao puno varijabli... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dcrnic Posted May 4, 2016 Share Posted May 4, 2016 Moj dyno ne radi coastdown jer nije tocno. Tocno je jedino mjerenje. To sa lerom je glupo i pise ti dalje objasnjenje.Ako je to nekome tocno, neka mu. To nije tocno. "Pretty close" je NETOCNO. Sad si razmisljam kako bi bilo dobro proizvesti mjerne uredaje za kurac sa uvecanim brojevima, tako da ovi sa malim kurcima si umisljaju da imaju velike i tako se tjese... :lol: Patent pending ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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